Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Questions, suggestions, and submissions to:

FAQ last updated: 05-SEP-2000

Question marked by a '*' denote content changes in this version
of the FAQ. Questions marked by the '*' have been modified 
significantly enough to make it known, so that people familiar
with the previous FAQ need only browse the '*' marks to get
updated information.

Questions in this FAQ:

Section: FAQ Facts
1)   What is the FAQ?
2)   Why do some people call it the Fruvous FAQ?
3)   Who maintains the FAQ?
4)   How can I make suggestions/corrections to the FAQ?
5)   Where can I get the FAQ?

Section: Fruvous Internet Resources
1)   Is there an official web page?
2)   Is there an IRC Channel?
3)   Is there a newsgroup?
4)   What is
5)   I'm getting a lot of bounce messages from What
     should I do?
6)   My server's newsfeed is horrible. What can I do?
7)   How do I unsubscribe from the Mail<-->News gateway?
8)   I don't want to unsubscribe, but I'm going away for a week. Can I
     ask the Mail<-->News gateway to not send me mail for a bit?
9) is too high traffic, but I still want to read 
     it. Is there anything I can do?
10)  Is there an archive of
11)  What is
12)  What is the "newsgroup pin"?
13)  Do the band members read the newsgroup?
14)* Are there any major fan web pages?
15)  What happened to Josh Cragun's and Bill Bowen's web pages?
16)  What's an umlaut? How do I make one?
17)  I don't seem to be getting any posts from the Mail<-->News Gateway.
     What should I do?
18)  I'm sending email through the Mail<-->News Gateway, but
     people who use news to read the group don't see it. Why?
19)  Where is the charter for

Section: Basic Moxy Fruvous Information
1)   Who is Moxy Fruvous?
2)   What does "Moxy Fruvous" mean?
3)   What is a Fruhead? How can I become a Fruhead?
4)   What is the "Fruhead Card"?  
5)   What is the "Frumiles Card"?
6)   My Frumiles Card expires at the "end of the millennium." Is that 
     December 31st, 1999, or 2000?
7)   Where is the band currently touring?
8)   Why has the band toured more in the United States than in Canada
9)   Why does the band frequently play at restricted venues that don't
     allow underage people in?
10)  There seems to be frequent mention of taping at Fruvous shows
     and trading of these tapes. What's the band's policy on that?
11)  Is there any connection between Moxy Fruvous and the soft drink
12)  I ordered my merchandise four weeks ago from Fruvous and I
     haven't received it yet.  What gives?
13)  What's the best thing I can do to help support the band?
14)  What's the story behind "The Troc"? What happened?

Section: Mike, Murray, Jian, and Dave
1)   On stage, who is who?
2)   Why is Jian's name written as Jean in liner notes and older articles?
3)   How do you pronounce Jian Ghomeshi?
4)   Is Dave gay? bisexual? How about Murray? Jian? Mike?

Section: The Albums
1)   What albums does Moxy Fruvous have out?
2)   Why aren't all the albums in stores?  Where are they available?
3)   What if I can't get any of the albums at stores?
4)   Does the band ever put out singles?
5)   Does the band ever make videos?
6)   Is there any connection between _You Will Go to the Moon_ and the
     children's book of the same name?
7)   What is the Indie Cassette I keep hearing about?
8)   Where can I get the Indie Cassette?

Section: Songs and Lyrics
1)   Where can I get a copy of "Green Eggs and Ham"?
2)   Where can I find the lyrics to "Johnny Saucep'n," "Your New
     Boyfriend," etc?
3)   Where can I get translations of the French songs?
4)   Where can I find tabulature for Fruvous songs?
5)   Where can I find vocal sheet music for Fruvous songs?
6)   Where can I find sound files of Fruvous songs?
7)   Which band member wrote which songs? Do they
8)   What's the song that they perform with the refrain, "Hey little
     bird, fly away home"?
9)   Is it a female voice or Mike's voice during the intro to the
     studio version of "Green Eggs and Ham"?
10)  Who says "Swing it" on the studio version of "Gotta Get a Message 
     to You"?
11)  Is the "Lowest Highest Point" really in Delaware?
12)  In "King of Spain," the King plays crokinole. What IS crokinole?
13)  What songs that Moxy Fruvous regularly performs are actually covers?
14)  In "River Valley," they mention Dippers, Grits,
     and Tories. What are those?
15)* In "Minnie the Moocher," are any of the lyrics the same
     at every performance?

Section: Fruvous Characters
1)   Who is Larry Boniface Clebdon?  Who is Barry?
2)   Who is Lazlo?  
3)   What's a Laika?
4)   Who is Dusty Fosterbourd?
5)   Who is Grandpa Fruvous?
6)   Who is Lou?
7)   Who is Marion Fruvous?
8)   Who is the Naive Young Chap?
9)   Who is Jared (the wild boy)?

Section: Fruvous-Related Links and Information
1)   What other bands might a fan of Fruvous be interested in?


Appendix A - An explanation of why age restricted venues exist and bands
             play at them
Appendix B - newsgroup definitions and
             etiquette suggestions
Appendix C - Common acronyms seen in

Section: FAQ Facts

1)  What is the FAQ?

The FAQ (a.m.m-f FAQ, or just the FAQ from 
here on out) is a frequently asked questions list that is a resource for 
newcomers and old timers of the internet NNTP newsgroup It is intended to answer many of the commonly 
recurring questions that are posed to the newsgroup so that the members 
there are not continually answering the same questions. 

Note that the a.m.m-f FAQ is not gospel. It is fan maintained. Sources are
cited where they are known and every attempt has been made to give 
information in as neutral a way as possible. But the maintainer is only 
human (and at this time at least, a quite opinionated human at that), and
at times some inkling of their opinions may seep in. Feel free to 
complain if you disagree.

2)  Why do some people call it the Fruvous FAQ?

The a.m.m-f FAQ does contain some good general Fruvous information that 
does not relate directly to the newsgroup. Any fan may find the 
information here useful, even if they do not have the time or desire to 
read the newsgroup. 

Also, "Fruvous FAQ" is much easier to say and type than 
" FAQ" or "a.m.m-f FAQ."

3)  Who maintains the FAQ?

The original maintainer of the FAQ was Colleen Campbell. She researched,
wrote up, and maintained the FAQ from its birth until August of 1999.
Her work on the FAQ is very much appreciated, and the Fruvous community 
owes her a debt for her hard work.

The second and current maintainer of the FAQ is Chad Maloney. Chad has 
been a Fruvous fan since July 1997 and posts frequently (if not very 
frequently) to a.m.m-f. He can be reached at and gladly
accepts any and all email.

4)  How can I make suggestions/corrections to the FAQ?

Your input to this FAQ is very valuable. If there's something you
disagree with, that you want said in a different way, or that you want 
added to or removed from the FAQ, please email the current FAQ maintainer.
They should happily talk with you about your addition and give you 
feedback on the request. The email address is setup 
for the current FAQ maintainer.

Please do NOT post your FAQ input to a.m.m-f. The FAQ maintainer needs to
keep a record of all requests so that they are processed accordingly. Due
to problems with newsfeeds, every post to a.m.m-f may not make it to the 

Please DO email the FAQ maintainer at

5)  Where can I get the FAQ?

The a.m.m-f FAQ is available in a couple of different ways. It is posted 
monthly to the newsgroup It is also available on 
the web at

You can also request the FAQ from the ammf-faq autoresponder. To do this,
simply send an email to and the FAQ, split 
into sizeable chunks, will automatically be emailed to you.

Finally, you can request that the FAQ be emailed to you by emailing and requesting the latest version of the FAQ.
The FAQ maintainer will forward you the FAQ when they get the email.

Section: Fruvous Internet Resources

1)   Is there an official web page?

Yes, there is. (Fruvous Dot Com or FDC) is
the official Moxy Fruvous web page and an amazing resource for 
Moxy Fruvous fans. The site is one of the best band websites around 
and contains an up-to-date tour itinerary, song lyrics, articles, guitar
tab, and show reviews. Reviews posted to 
usually make their way onto the site or they can be emailed to The site is maintained by Chris O'Malley 
and any questions about it should be sent to him at

Moxy Fruvous Corp also has registered the domain
for future use.

2)   Is there an IRC Channel?

Yes, there is probably more than one. The one that many a.m.m-f
denizens frequent is #MoxyFruvous on the Undernet. More information about 
that channel is available on FDC at

You can probably find Moxy Fruvous channels on EFNet and DALnet
as well under various names. 

3)   Is there a newsgroup?

Yes, there is. (for which this FAQ is 
written) is the Usenet group for discussion of Moxy Fruvous. For
a simple etiquette guide to, see Appendix B
of this FAQ.

To access the newsgroup using NNTP, choose your favorite newsreader
(like TIN, Netscape Messenger, Outlook, etc) and look in the hierarchy for moxy-fruvous. 

You also need a news provider. If you are in school, you may have
to request that be added to your school's
news server. You can also use a free NNTP service like to
read the newsgroup or there are several great news service providers
that are available for relatively little money. NewsGuy, for example, 
works extremely well for some people ( ) and is 
very inexpensive. 

AOL has their own newsserver and the newsgroup is available there.
To get to it, go to the keyword "newsgroups", then "add newsgroup."
Search the hierarchy for and
then subscribe. 

Note that NNTP and the graph of newsservers is not wholly reliable.
Sometimes posts may be lost or come in out of order. is
usually very complete, as is NewsGuy. See question #6 for some
alternatives to using a bad newsserver.

4)   What is is the email address of the Mail<-->News Gateway.
Sending email to will post the contents of the
email to the newsgroup with the subject provided. This is how
the Mail--->News half of the gateway works, so that when you reply
to a message sent by the gateway, it goes to the newsgroup.

The Mail<-->News gateway provides a way to receive the contents of
the newsgroup without using an NNTP newsreader.
Instead, once you subscribe, each posting to the newsgroup is emailed 
to you directly. Note that there is still an NNTP server behind the
Mail<-->News gateway, so there may be posts out of order or
left out, like when using another NNTP server. The contents of
the list are also available in digest form. See question #9 for
more information.

For more information about the Mail<-->News Gateway, see

5)   I'm getting a lot of bounce messages from What
     should I do?

If you aren't subscribed to the Mail<-->News gateway, something
is really wrong. If you are subscribed to the Mail<-->News Gateway,
then probably someone else is having mail problems and is bouncing
mail to the list. Please send an email to 
regarding the problem and they will work it out. Forward the bounce 
there and they will fix the problem as promptly as possible.

6)   My server's newsfeed is horrible. What can I do?

You have a couple of choices. You could pay for a better NNTP service
from a company like NewsGuy ( ). If you
have patience, you can use a free NNTP service that has a good
newsfeed like The interface to Deja is a little awkward,
but it does work. 

The web site has a web interface into
a.m.m-f available as well. 

Finally, you can subscribe to the Mail<-->News gateway which is
already hooked up to a good newsfeed. To subscribe to the 
Mail<-->Gateway (which will email you everything posted to and allow you to email to 
post to the newsgroup), see It has 
information on the Mail<-->News Gateway. Note that the web interface
on FHDC uses the Mail<-->News Gateway for its newsfeed.

7)   How do I unsubscribe from the Mail<-->News gateway?

To unsubscribe from the Mail<-->News gateway, you need to unsubscribe
from the mailing list If you are unsubscribing from
the address that is subscribed to the list, you simply need to send
an email to with the single word "unsubscribe"
in the body of the message. Otherwise, you're request will need
to be authorized manually. You can email for
help with that process. 

If you are subscribed to the digest version, send your email to following the instructions above.

Please don't include your .sig in messages to the ammf-request
address as it may mess up the automatic processor.

See for more Mail<-->News gateway

8)   I don't want to unsubscribe, but I'm going away for a week. Can I
     ask the Mail<-->News gateway to not send me mail for a bit?

Nope. Sorry. The mailing list software behind the Mail<-->News gateway 
is Majordomo, which doesn't allow you to remain subscribed, while
temporarily shutting off distribution of mailing list messages to your 
email address. To do this, you'll have to unsubscribe then resubscribe
when you return.

9) is too high traffic, but I still want to read
     it. Is there anything I can do?

The best thing to do is to subscribe to the Mail<-->News gateway
in digest form. In digest form, you will receive one large
email containing a number of posts to the newsgroup instead of
each one individually. You can then read the one message, instead
of individually reading the 40 messages contained in it. 

To do this, email with the message body
containing "subscribe ammf-digest".

10)  Is there an archive of

There are two easily available archives of the newsgroup. The first
is provided by the Mail<-->News gateway, which archives all digests
it sends. They are available for download at
but you can't search or easily navigate through the digests. archives a great portion of Usenet for your use. It provides
robust searching of newsgroup articles back to 1996.

11)  What is is the old Moxy Fruvous newsgroup. People now
use for discussion of the band Moxy Fruvous.
The newsgroup in the hierarchy is no longer used because
it was not petitioned properly in alt.config before the "add group"
message was given to NNTP servers. Because of this, the group
is not available in many places. The group was (eventually) 
properly setup and should be available on a wider range of servers. An
attempt was made to remove the group from Usenet, but
this isn't really feasible because NNTP servers aren't organized
at all.

Most posts to get immediate replies from kind
fans referring them to

12)  What is the "newsgroup pin"? is a pretty cohesive fan group and many of us
have developed a taste for meeting up with each other at Fruvous
shows. To identify each other, the newsgroup came up with the a.m.m-f pin,
originally distributed by Vicky Brasseur to those who sent her an SASE.  
There are a limited number of fans still using these old buttons,
but Vicky is no longer distributing them. If you are at a show, look 
for Fruheads wearing a 2" white pin with black lettering, 
"" on the top, "have modem - will travel" on 
the bottom, with the "Barry" creature (from the back of _The B Album_) 
in the center in full color.

An image of the a.m.m-f pin (or ng pin) is available on FDC at

The newsgroup pin seems to be in less use than it was during '97.  Many of
the newsgroup regulars became very familiar with each other in that period
and identification pins became rather extraneous.  There are a lot of 
new a.m.m-f'ers out there, though, and it would probably help us all meet
each other if we kept the pin in common use.

In August of 1999, Chad Maloney ( ) had a new
batch of the old buttons reprinted. He has information on how to
get an ng pin available. See
for more information about getting a button.

13)  Do the band members read the newsgroup?

Jian has admitted in front of fans that he does skim the newsgroup
occasionally. It's also been said that Murray and Mike have seen
the newsgroup before.

Even though members of the band occasionally see the newsgroup,
the newsgroup is not for communication with the band members. 
Many, many people read the newsgroup to discuss Moxy Fruvous,
and the last thing they want is people posting personal messages
to Murray, for example. There are much better ways to communicate
personally with the band than to use the public newsgroup.

Please remember that the newsgroup is a public forum and what
you write may be seen by any number of people, including band

14)* Are there any major fan web pages?

FDC has a links page for many fan pages in its "Moxy Online" section
available at is a fan web page and resource for 
Fruheads kept up by Josh Woodward. It provides many great functions 
like sending messages to other fans (Frumessages) and trip 
planning/coordination. You do have to be a member to use some functions,
but membership is free.

Also, FHDC has a "Fruhead Links" section with Fruvous-related links on it.

Most of the band members also have fan run sites dedicated to them:
- is a Murray Foster fan site
- is a Mike Ford fan site
- is a David Matheson fan site 
- is a Jian Ghomeshi fan site (and 
  of course there's for details of
  one of Jian's oddest proclivities)

15)  What happened to Josh Cragun's and Bill Bowen's web pages?

Bill Bowen's page called the "Fruvous Supplement" lost web space
quite a while ago.  He has since allowed Chris O'Malley to include his
web page on FDC.  Josh Cragun's, which was originally the "official"
Fruvous homepage, but hadn't been updated in over a year, disappeared
from the web awhile ago.  The "jcragun" account was removed from the server,
possibly because Josh is no longer at school.  Chris has, however,
moved some of the articles, lyrics, and other tidbits from those 
pages to FDC with the permission of their previous owners.

16)  What's an umlaut? How do I make one?

An umlaut is the technical name for the two dots that are above the "u" 
in Moxy Fruvous in all the band's printed materials. In other languages, 
things like umlauts modify the pronounciation of a specific letter. For 
example, the u-umlaut in German sounds like a ue, and is sometimes
written that way in electronic media where no umlaut is available. 

How to make an umlaut on your computer depends on the computer you use 
and the character set it is configured for. On most Windows PCs, the 
ascii code 129 is used for the lowercase u-umlaut. To make it, hold down 
the ALT-key and, using the numeric keypad on the far right of your 
keyboard, type 129 then release the ALT-key. The result should be a 
lowercase u-umlaut that will be visible for people using Windows. But, 
for some people using a different character set usually on UNIX, what 
you just made will show up as junk. 

It is this character set difference that keeps this FAQ from using umlauts
for Fruvous and that causes many people to not use them in IRC or on the 
newsgroup. Not everyone sees it as an umlaut. Normally, when someone sees
a word that is Fr^vous for example, they realize what it says, but it's 
usually best to stick to Fruvous without the umlaut if you want it to 
look decent on all computers.

17)   I don't seem to be getting any posts from the Mail<-->News Gateway.
      What should I do?

Don't panic. a.m.m-f gets a lot of traffic and you probably notice
when something is awry with some part of the Mail<-->News Gateway.
There are a couple steps in the process that could be the problem
and any diagnosis you can do on your own will benefit both you
and others. 

The first thing to check is your email account. Do you have an
email quota that you are violating because of too much mail? If you
are in violation of your quota, your ISP may be automatically
bouncing new messages addressed to you back to the sender. Are
you getting other email alright? If so, there's probably nothing
wrong with your mail account. Your ISP can probably help you
figure out if you are having problems with your email service.

The Mail<-->News Gateway works by taking mail from an NNTP newsserver
it uses and forwarding it to a majordomo mailing list. There
are a couple places where this whole process can be gummed up.
The newsserver the Mail<-->Gateway uses may be having problems,
there could be space problems on the machine that manages the
majordomo list, or any of myriad of other problems. The proper
thing to do when you've determined the problem isn't your email
is to send an email to and explain your
problems. They will help you as soon as they can.

Please don't send "I'm not getting any posts" messages to the
newsgroup. The correct and direct way to get the problem fixed
is to alert of the problem.

18)   I'm sending email through the Mail<-->News Gateway, but
      people who use news to read the group don't see it. Why?

To send posts to the newsgroup through the Mail<-->News Gateway,
you have to send email to This is the correct
address and the only address that will post your message to the

The Mail<-->News Gateway is currently housed by and is a valid email address, but is NOT the address 
of the Mail<-->News Gateway. Mail sent to this address will be
distributed only to those people who subscribe to the gateway.
People who use NNTP news services or Deja won't see the post. The
solution is to use, which will automatically
submit a NNTP news post for you that will then be distributed
to Deja and other NNTP news service providers, including the
Mail<-->News Gateway itself.

19)   Where is the charter for

In technical newsgroup geek terms, there was quite an excitement
over the registration of before everything
settled down. With an already existing (yet badly named and 
half-heartedly propaged) newsgroup for the discussion of the band,
it took a few tries to get added to the
Usenet hierarchy and news spools around the world. 

You can see some remnants of this and also the newsgroup charter
as written by Jason Reiser at:

Note that the newsgroup charter is not kept up to date. This
FAQ is kept up to date and should be a great resource for up-to-date
information about the newsgroup and the band. The charter is
available for posterity however for all internet history buffs
and curiosity-driven fans alike.

Section: Basic Moxy Fruvous Information

1)   Who is Moxy Fruvous?

"Coming from Canada," a Toronto-based quartet of singer-songwriters
who double as political satirists, comedians, social commentators,
etc.  The band includes Mike Ford (guitar, harmonica, bongos,
keyboard, occasional drum kit and vocals), Murray Foster (bass,
occasional drum kit, percussion, occasional guitar, and vocals),
Jian Ghomeshi (drums, percussion, occasional guitar, and vocals), and 
Dave Matheson (guitar, accordion, banjo, keyboards, and
vocals).  They've been playing together as a group since about 1990 and
are known for their experimentation, dabbling in genres from
barbershop quartet to grunge, retro rock to rap, ballads to Saturday
morning cartoons.

See for the Fruvous Dot Com
band bios.

2)   What does "Moxy Fruvous" mean?

Mike: Many, many people come up to us after shows and ask us
      "where'd you get your name"?
Jian: Or sometimes, or more usually, it's "where'd you get
      your stupid name."

What does "Moxy Fruvous" mean? Nothing.  Nada.  Zilch.  Anything you 
want it to.  "What is the sound of one hand clapping"?  It's a couple 
of nonsense words, two great tastes that taste great together, a happy 
coincidence, a fun sound, and to fans' everlasting delight, some 
gibberish that lends itself imminently to wordplay.  If you ask Fruvous 
what their name means, you're likely to get a strange look (or several) 
or a cryptic reply.

3)   What is a Fruhead? How can I become a Fruhead?

Fruvous is aware of and frequently acknowledges their follow-band
status. Some fans of the band consider themselves "Fruheads" (which is
a derivation of word Deadhead used to describe specific fans of
the band The Grateful Dead, who followed them around creating
a whole new social atmosphere around Dead shows in addition to the
actual show itself). At its most basic, a Fruhead is usually a
fan of the band who goes a bit beyond what normally comes with
being a fan. Many Fruheads not only attend shows in their town, 
but travel to nearby or even faraway towns to see shows or
attend multiple shows in a row on a tour. They support the band,
buying albums and other merchandise, and usually recommend the
band vehemently to their friends. The band likes to describe the
Fruheads as the people who "get" their music and what they are
doing and support it.

Many times, the word Fruhead is used interchangeably with fan, though
to some, "Fruhead" has more connotations than just a fan.

There is no ritual, rite of passage, or letter of recommendation
needed to become a Fruhead. Despite the description given for
the six-stamp mark on the old Fruhead card, there is no prerequisite
number of shows you need to attend before becoming a Fruhead. You
simply need to consider yourself a member of the Fruhead community
and be willing to accept that label upon yourself, knowing full well
it means a boatload of things to different people. 

People who do not travel, but see each and every show in their city
and support the band by buying albums are just as important as
the crazy who drives to who-knows-where to see a show. The status
of Fruhead does not raise someone into the inner circle of Frudom.
If you consider yourself a Fruhead, congratulations. You are.

4)   What is the "Fruhead Card"?

In the Fruvous Quill #9 (their mailing list fan club newsletter, 
also on file on FDC at ), they 
instituted the Fruhead Card, a means of keeping track of the number 
of shows a fan had attended.  It ran through December 1997 and was 
stamped and dated at the merchandise table at each show. After 3 
stamps, the fan received a pin; at 6, a t-shirt signed by 
Fruvous (not available for purchase); at 12, a compilation of their 
videos (including "King of Spain," "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors," 
"Stuck in the Nineties," "Fell in Love," "Down From Above," "Fly," 
and "Get in the Car"); at 18, a song composed, recorded, and mailed 
to them by the band; at 24, an all-expense-paid bowling trip with 
Fruvous; at 30, a dinner-and-dancing date with Dave; at 36, dinner 
and dancing with Mike, Jian, or Murray; and at 50, theoretically, 
a Fruvous ass-brand administered by the band. 

None of the songs have yet reached the fans - about forty obtained
18 stamps (though several people have been told that their songs
are completed).  About 20 people reached the 24 stamp mark, and many 
of them went on a bowling trip with Fruvous during the weekend of 
the First Annual Fruhead Convention (FruCon) held in Toronto in 
February 1998.  The dinner dates haven't yet materialized and seem 
to be in rain check mode (no figures available on how many people
reached each of those marks).  Two people, though, reached the
fifty-stamp mark; Dan "the Shadow" Jablonski respectfully declined 
the fleshly acknowledgment of his accomplishment, but the other, 
Chris O'Malley, received a tattoo of the budgie dog (paid for by 
Fruvous), on camera (and broadcast on Canadian television), right 
where it was stipulated.

5)   What is the "Frumiles Card"?

The Frumiles Card was the latest reincarnation of the original Fruhead
Card. It began in Fruvous Quill #12, and every subscriber to the Quill
received a card.  The system of rewards was similar, but one must 
accumulate Frumiles and "spent" them, instead of simply receiving 
the prize after X number of shows.  The prizes that time were a Fruvous
key fob for 300 miles, pin for 500, racing cap for 1000, campfire 
songbook for 1500, mint condition indie cassette for 2500, and bowling
with the band and "treats" for 3000.

Note that these theoretical miles had nothing to do with
actual miles, and driving from Vancouver to a Boston show would
likely net you one stamp on your card, worth 100 miles.

To cash in stamps on your Frumiles card, check at the
Merchandise table at a show, email MFHQ at,
or call or mail Moxy Fruvous headquarters using the contact
info on FDC at

A picture of the front of the Frumiles Card is available at

6)   My Frumiles Card expires at the "end of the millennium." Is that 
     December 31st, 1999, or 2000?

While Quill #12 states that "Stamps will be awarded for the duration of 
this millenium," the front of the Frumiles card clearly states 98/99
and members of the band and crew have said that the Frumiles Card
ends its run at the end of 1999. And, as a matter of fact, it did
end its run at the end of 1999 with the final stamps possible on
the Frumiles card being given out at the two shows over New Years 
in Buffalo in 1999/2000. Yes, a stamp was given for the New Years Day
show on January 1st, 2000.

7)   Where is the band currently touring?

Tour information is included in each issue of the Fruvous Quill. Simply 
sign up on the band's mailing list and you will get the Quill twice a year. 
To get on the mailing list, check at the merch table at a show or email 
MFHQ at and ask to be placed on the mailing list.

If you are on the mailing list, the band will occasionally send postcards
to certain areas or all over to announce a stint of dates, usually
as an addendum to the latest Quill.

Fruvous Dot Com is also kept up-to-date with the latest tour
info including additions and changes since the Quill went out.
It also has venue information and links to venue web sites.
The FDC Tour Page is found by following the Tour Dates link on
the main page

The final say in tour date information comes from the kind people
who hold down Moxy Fruvous Headquarters in Toronto ON. To get 
clarification on tour dates beyond what is listed on FDC, contact them at or call using the phone number listed on 
FDC in the Contacting Fruvous section at

Fruvous has played in England, Scotland, and Denmark in the past, 
and recently have been touring more in Western Canada and the Western
United States than in the past. Tour dates are usually more 
concentrated in the areas around Toronto ON, and in the Midwest and 
Northeast United States.

8)   Why has the band toured more in the United States than in Canada

[Maintainer's Note: This question is a really an opinion question.
     I personally wasn't there when all this happened, though I
     have talked with some people about it. Colleen was not there
     either. Both our takes come from secondhand (or more) observations
     and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I left Colleen's answer in
     as well as adding my own to this so you can see both our

This is a tough question really. As of late, there has still been
a bias towards the US, even though there have been tours including
Western Canada for the first time in years. Jack Ross, the band's
manager, said that with the release of _Thornhill_, he thought that
the Canadian music industry may again be ready for Moxy Fruvous,
and the touring schedule would reflect that thought for the _Thornhill_

The bottom line is that touring is how the band makes money, and 
with the media reversal post-_Bargainville_ in Canada, the 
United States brought in crowds and the money it takes to keep them 
on the road. With the grassroots success they were seeing, they also 
found a growing fanbase that was very dedicated, in addition to some 
already dedicated Canadian fans. 

With _Thornhill_, it seems the band has branched out to a much
larger area. Where they used to play 2 or 3 (and sometimes 4) times
in some of their favorite cities, they now cover more area. They
have toured in 98 and 99 in Western Canada and down the West Coast
of the United States, including dates in Colorado.

[Colleen Campbell's answer circa early-1998, from the original FAQ]

Whooboy.  Touchy question, but one that deserves at least an attempt
at an answer on a FAQ, as it's been a
frequently-asked-and-endlessly-discussed question on the newsgroup.
Thus, a caveat: the writer of this FAQ, like the people reading it, is
a person with an opinion which is informed by the facts she has
gathered (definitely not all the facts on the matter which exist) and
which does not necessarily represent the only answer or even the
correct answer, if there is  one.  If you find this answer demeaning,
offensive, or incorrect, please remember that it is not intended to be
so and may not address your personal experience or beliefs in the

Given that, then: Fruvous is a band which had what Murray has called
"meteoric" popularity in Canada with their indie tape and
_Bargainville_: the former went gold and the latter went platinum.  They
covered Canada thoroughly on their "Bargainville" tour, but barely
dipped into their southern neighbor, even in 1994, when the album was
released in the States.  Their following at the time, though, wasn't
one known for longevity of interest or loyalty, consisting at least in
part of "teenyboppers" who were more attracted to Fruvous' novelty
work.  Songs like "King of Spain" received a lot more attention than
songs like "Fell in Love" did.  In the States, though, there was
little media attention to or radio play from _Bargainville_, so when the
album was heard, it was probably taken more as a whole, novelty and
serious songs both.

When _Wood_ came out, the media machine didn't go into play as it had
before in Canada, nor was audience response the same: the album hit
only #35, Fruvous was playing to much smaller crowds, and there was
little notice of it by critics, as there had been for _Bargainville_. In
short, Fruvous  probably felt like Canadian audiences had rejected it.
In the States, although the album wasn't released, the songs from it
were received as "another side of Fruvous" during concerts: audiences
tended to have fewer expectations about Fruvous' "novelty" work than
in Canada.  So Fruvous built up a stronger base of support while
touring to promote _Wood_ in America.

Canadian media and audiences don't seem to be as aware that Fruvous is
a group of evolution and experimentation, that they are not just "the
band who went platinum back in '94"; meanwhile, in the States, the
response to and coverage of Fruvous has been increasing since then.
And America is a relatively new and fertile ground to till, for them:
a place where they're still forging a name for themselves and can
attract a new following, which is important for a band of their
stature to do.  They have been well-received at even the largest folk
festivals in America, selling out of albums at both Falcon Ridge Folk
Festival and Philly Folk Festival.  This is not to say that they
aren't appreciated in Canada (Dave reports that both nations are "duly
impressed" with the latest [You Will Go To The Moon] album), or that 
this trend of fewer concerts there will continue indefinitely: just 
that Fruvous seems to be responding to their increasing popularity 
in the States by "giving the people what they ask for."

9)   Why does the band frequently play at restricted venues that don't
     allow underage people in?

They do not play age-restricted venues because the band hates all 
underage fans. That's simply not true. Moxy Fruvous, in addition to 
being an incredible band and 4 wonderful people, is a business and 
the livelihood of those 4 members (and other people who work with 
the band). They need to make money, and they do mainly by playing a 
lot of gigs across this continent. They, like many bands, have a 
booking agent that gets them gigs so that, in addition to writing 
wonderful music and thinking up silly characters, the band doesn't 
have to worry about calling clubs, arranging contracts, and making 
sure they are getting paid what they should.

Many times, due to the economy of the live music industry, the 
only place to play in a given town on a given night is a bar. And, due 
to local, state or provincial, or national laws, there are just some 
rules that need to be obeyed. Age restriction is a big one.

If this is still worrying you, or you want information about the
above, read Appendix A right now. It's a detailed account from
a different perspective of why age-restricted shows happen.

All that said, what can you, the underage fan, do about it? Please 
do your research. Find some other venues in your area that regularly
play all-ages shows and get that information to the band (most likely
through MFHQ - ). They will get that info
to the right people, and it may work. It also may not. 

Just please keep in mind that when there is an age-restricted show,
it isn't to spite you in particular or underage fans in general. It's
usually because the club wants it that way and in order to play
the club, the band abides by their rules. 

If you haven't read Appendix A yet, go do it. 

10)   There seems to be frequent mention of taping at Fruvous shows
     and trading of those tapes. What's the band's policy on that?

Well, obviously, the newsgroup respects Fruvous's right to their 
own music and performances, and fans would not tape against their 
wishes. Those interested should first look around at a show. If there 
are any other tapers there setting up, strike up a conversation and 
get to know them and what rules they abide by. If no one is visibly 
taping there, asking Cal Stanutz (the front of house sound engineer) 
or Dave Tobey (the road manager) is often easier than locating one of 
Fruvous before a show.

The band currently allows and appreciates taping for non-commercial
use on a personal level. The best way to get into taping Fruvous
is to talk to other tapers at a show. Many of them know the
band's position on things and may have tips and tricks on levels,
show length, and board feeds. Most Fruvous tapers are very 
friendly beasts that would love someone to talk to about their
myriad of gear.

In dissemination of taped live shows, Fruvous prefers one-on-one
trades. No profit is to be made of the privilege of taping their
shows. Personal trading encourages a bit of accountability
and it is recommended that you have purchased all the commercially
available albums before getting into tape trading.

There have been two Moxy Fruvous tape trees in the past. The
first, disseminating a show from the Iron Horse in Northampton, August
of 1995, was run by John Greene.  The second, taped in New York City
in December of 1996, was run by Jason Reiser.  Both shows are widely
available; ask for them, and you'll likely get a friendly Fruhead to
tape one for you.  There are, of course, many other live shows
available, and many people are eager to trade or acquire them, so keep
your eyes open and feel free to ask if you're looking for a particular
show for your own personal use. 

FHDC ( ) has a section set up for 
finding tape traders. It provides quick info on people who collect
shows and are willing to trade with new people. It also has a quick
search engine that will search lists for specific shows.

Please don't offer to pay someone (in money, extra tapes, or
anything else) in return for copies of Fruvous live shows. This
hurts the band and threatens the privilege tapers have to
tape the shows. Fruvous allows taping for personal use only, and
no one should be profiting off the tapes made with their

11)  Is there any connection between Moxy Fruvous and the soft drink

Nope.  In fact, the guys have made derogatory remarks about the drink.
Don't expect any cross-over advertising campaigns any time soon.  Nor
is there any connection between the '70s group Moxie, the '90s group
Moxy, or the group Mox.  

12)  I ordered my merchandise four weeks ago from Fruvous and I
     haven't received it yet.  What gives?

Welcome to the world of shipping.  Most ordering services stipulate
that you'll receive your order within six to eight weeks, and Fruvous
is no different.  It'll take up to a week to receive your order, a few
more weeks to get it processed and shipped back, and then a week or
two more to receive your package. When customs is involved, other delays 
are likely as well.

If you're concerned, though, that your merchandise seems to be taking
an abnormally long time, you'd do well to contact MFHQ directly and ask
for yourself.  They're very busy, so if you need a quick reply, a call
to (416) 368-5599 will probably yield better results than attempting
to resolve the situation via email.

13)  What's the best thing I can do to help support the band?

The absolute best thing you can do to help support the band is to tell
all your friends about them. If you feel that Moxy Fruvous is the best
thing since sliced bread, tell your friends. Sit them down and ask them
to take a listen to a song you think they'll like. Take them to a
live show and let Fruvous do the selling for you.

You can do the normal fan things. Go to Fruvous shows (and don't
forget to invite friends). Buy Fruvous albums for yourself.

You can also do the abnormal fan things that many Fruvous fans and
Fruheads do. Drive to see that show in the next town over. Drive to
see that show in the next Province over. Arrange your work flights
so that you have a convenient stop-over in a city where Fruvous
is playing that night. 

Please request Moxy Fruvous at your favorite (and least favorite)
radio stations. If you are familiar with radio formats, AAA stations
would probably be best. Call them up and request your favorite song or the
current single off the newest album. If they give you the line about
not having the album, email MFHQ ( ) and give them the
information about the station you called. They can make sure that
a promo copy of some Fruvous stuff has been sent or will be sent there.
Make the radio stations know that people out there want to hear 
Moxy Fruvous.

When you go into a record store, check for Fruvous albums. Some people
even go so far as to helpfully rearrange the albums so that the more
important bands (i.e. Moxy Fruvous) are up front. We here at the FAQ
don't condone this behavior, but do what you like! If you don't see
any Moxy Fruvous CDs there at the store, ask them to order some for
you. It'll give them an idea that people want to buy Fruvous albums.
If you already own the disc, just tell them you found it at their
competitor's store already in stock and bought it there, but thank
them for ordering it for you and reassure them you'll check there
next for other Moxy Fruvous albums now that they've gotten their
act together. Also, you can forward record store info to 
MFHQ ( ) and they can get that info to the record label 
so they can use that information to get the album well distributed. 

Each person's work in helping and supporting the band is important. 
Moxy Fruvous was built upon grassroots efforts and friendly word of mouth
and that comes from you. Keep up the good work!

14)   What's the story behind "The Troc"? What happened?

The Troc, or the Trocadero, is a club in downtown Philadelphia. Philly
is a very Fruvous-friendly town and the home of WXPN. Fruvous plays
many large sold out shows in Philly and it's one of their biggest 
markets, largely thanks to the support WXPN gives them through
airplay and promotion. The band has played in the area for years.
FDC tracks shows back to 1994 at the Tin Angel. In 1996, they
started playing in Philly at the TLA, the Theatre of Living Arts,
a much larger venue than the Tin Angel and a symbol of their
success in the Philadelphia area. After 3 gigs in the next
year at the TLA (including one of the shows recorded for the
_Live Noise_ album), the band had outgrown even that venue. The
next choice of venues was the Trocadero. It was significantly
larger than the TLA, but still the show was sold out even before
the day of the show. Yet another statement of the Philly area's
love for Fruvous.

That Trocadero show on February 6th, 1999 is a show that will 
live in infamy in many Frufan minds. The show itself was a very 
good show. The larger venues carry better lighting and sound 
equiptment allowing for the band to rock out a bit. But the place 
was packed solid for the most part and there were long waits while 
your elbows jabbed your neighbor and the person behind you breathed 
down your neck. The opener, the Butch Ross Band, started playing 
before even half the line had come in yet there was an interminable 
wait between sets stirring the crowd up. But still, Fruvous pulled 
everyone together with an incredible set.

After the show was a different story. The club, well within
it's rights but entirely against the spirit of a Moxy Fruvous
show, proceeded to quickly and forcefully push the entire crowd
out the doors. People trying to get Frumiles stamps from Tobey
were hurried. People trying to purchase Fruvous CDs or shirts 
were hurried. People waiting patiently to get autographs because 
they knew the band was coming out to give them were hurried, various
members of the club's security staff yelling the entire time. It is 
understandable that the staff wants to go home after a show, but the 
way the fans were treated was unacceptable. 

Many fans ended up out on the sidewalks on a February night
waiting (some vocally), while the security staff attempted to even
force them off the sidewalk in front of the building. One by
one, as each band member realized what had happened, they
came out to the front of the venue to sign autographs and
chat with fans. The band apologized for the actions of the venue
and cheerfully talked and signed, even after a long show
after a long day. But, when the band wanted to go back inside,
the security had locked them out as well! Once someone came
out, someone else caught the door and held it open so the
band could get back inside when needed and eventually everyone
went home with a sour taste in their mouths thanks to the
security staff and policies of the Trocadero.

The next day, the newsgroup began to fill with discussions of the 
show and disgust at how paying customers of the venue were treated. 
Many called for boycotts of the Trocadero and expressed wishes that 
Moxy Fruvous never play there again. The show reviews on FDC represent 
a taste of the discussions ( ).

After a day full of complaints on the newsgroup, Jian posted an official 
apology from the band, management, and crew for the staff at the 
Trocadero and promised that the band will not play the Trocadero in 
Philadelphia ever again (instead he offered the idea of playing multiple 
TLA shows even though the venue is much smaller). The incident received 
press in the Philly area ( ). 

With no suitable venue in Philadelphia itself, the next Philly area
show came in November 1999 - a sold-out show at the Keswick Theater
about 20 minutes outside Philly.

Section: Mike, Murray, Jian, and Dave

1)   On stage, who is who?

In standard position, the lads on stage are (from left to right):
Murray, Jian, Mike, Dave. Murray wears the stylish shirts and usually
is found playing the bass. Jian is the self-proclaimed (and born that
way) "brown guy" with black curls usually behind the stand-up drum kit.
Mike is the crazy Kirk Cameron looking guy usually found with a guitar.
Lastly, Dave is the bald one with the accordion, banjo, or guitar.

From their standard positions on stage, stage left (or left when
you are standing on stage looking at the audience) has been deemed
"Stage Dave" while stage right has been called "Stage Murray." People
standing towards the middle can be "Stage Jian" and "Stage Mike."

2)   Why is Jian's name written as Jean in liner notes and older articles?

"Jian Ghomeshi" is the original spelling of his name. When his family
moved to Canada in his youth, his mother changed it to "Jean," perhaps
because it seemed easier to pronounce that way; but it's always been,
officially, "Jian" (including on his driver's license), his friends
have always known him as "Jian," and he's been spelling it "Jian"
across the board for a good while now.

3)   How do you pronounce Jian Ghomeshi?

Jian's heritage is Persian (Iranian).  It's not possible to exactly
reproduce the phonetic sound of his name in English letters, but
"ZHEE-on" comes closest (where that ZH is kinda like the Z sound
from Zsa Zsa Gabor). Ghomeshi is pronounced like it's spelled - "go-MESH-ee."

4)   Is Dave gay? bisexual? How about Murray? Jian? Mike?

The matters of the band members' personal lives are NOT
something for this FAQ to discuss. 

The band, being open-minded individuals, do bring up sexual preference
occasionally on stage, usually through jokes that may be
unsettling to members of the audience that aren't so comfortable with it. 
The other members of Moxy Fruvous frequently tease Dave onstage
about proclivities other than strictly heterosexual.  "Lee," from _You
Will Go to the Moon_, is sung by Dave and can be interpreted to be
voiced by a gay man to a lover dying of AIDS.  Dave is usually nodded
at by Jian during the word "gays" from the line "paranoid minorities,
and gays" from "Greatest Man in America." Jian frequently dons a
bright orange shirt proclaiming "I dig your boyfriend" for shows; he
also alters lyrics, such as saying "I was looking straight" instead of
"straight ahead" in "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors." Mike, during
a break in "the Kid's Song" where he says "my sister has 3 gender
biases" on _the B album_, sometimes says "she's trisexual" live.

But the bottom line here is that it is none of your business. If
you feel it is your business, take it up with the band members
themselves and see what they have to say. It is inappropriate for
the newsgroup to discuss such things.

Section: The Albums

1)   What albums does Moxy Fruvous have out?

Fruvous has 4 studio albums, 1 live album, an EP, and their self-produced
cassette tape.

o The indie tape, 1992
o _Bargainville_, 1993      (WEA CD 93134, Atlantic 82563-2)
o _Wood_,         1995      (WEA CD 10616, BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47306)
o _The B Album_,  1996      (WEA CD 14187, BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47307)
o _You Will Go to the Moon_, 1997 (Bottom Line Records VEL 7301-2)
o _Live Noise_,   1998      (BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47304, WEA CD23269)
o _Thornhill_,    1999      (BMG/Razor & Tie #82849/Bottom Line)
o _The C Album_,  2000      (Consolidated Fruvous Inc. 01051-2)

See the Moxy Fruvous discography on Fruvous Dot Com at

2)   Why aren't all the albums in stores?  Where are they available?

The indie tape is no longer in production; there were a limited number
produced (something over 50,000), and you'll be lucky to get your
mitts on a copy.  Grubbing around in used music stores in Canada is
your best bet.  Begging and offering large amounts of money might
work, but it's doubtful.  You're more likely to find someone to copy
the album for you, if you offer your firstborn child in return - or just
ask nicely.  A mint condition copy was also available as a prize offered
for 2500 Frumiles.

_Bargainville_, released by Warner, is widely available in Canada; in
America, it was released in 1994 by Atlantic and is carried by many
major music chains.

_Wood_ was released by Warner in Canada and has been rereleased
in the States by Bottom Line/VelVel/BMG. It is distributed by BMG, 
a major distributor, so any self-respecting CD store should be
able to order it.

_The B Album_ was originally self-promoted, but it was picked up by Warner
in Canada and has been rereleased by Bottom Line/VelVel/BMG in
the States. It is also distributed by BMG, so you should be able
to get a copy in most any CD store.

_You Will Go to the Moon_ was released by Warner in Canada.  In
America, it is the first release of fledgling independent label the
Bottom Line Record Co.

_Live Noise_, is the final Moxy Fruvous release on Warner Canada
and released by Bottom Line in the Unites States. It is distributed 
by BMG and therefore is available in most major music chains.

_Thornhill_ was released in the United States on August 10th, 1999
on Bottom Line/Razor & Tie/BMG. It was released in Canada
on August 24th on True North Records, where the boys signed after
their Warner Canada deal was up post-_Live Noise_. It is distributed
by BMG, so it should be available or orderable anywhere you go.

_The C Album_, a follow up to _B_ containing tracks that just
would not have fit on _Thornhill_, was release through FDC, MFHQ,
and at shows in May 2000. It is available through FDC (see for ordering info) or it is
purchaseable at the merchandise table at live shows.

3)   What if I can't get any of the albums at stores?

Rule number one of "I can't find Fruvous records at my local
record shop" is to ask at the desk. If they don't have the album
you are looking for, ask them if they can order it. In the States,
the Bottom Line-released albums are distributed by BMG, a
major distributor. Because of this, they should be easily orderable
by any music shop in the country. _Bargainville_ was released on
Atlantic, so it had decent distribution, but it is rather old
and may be a bit harder to order. In Canada, the Warner Canada
albums should be easily orderable.

Please, even if you don't want to buy the album because you'd
rather get it another way, ask the stores to order Fruvous albums
if they don't carry them. This will get the band noticed by 
the store and by distributors as well and get more copies of
the CD into the stores where impulse buying may make new fans.

If you cannot get the CDs the above way, you can order them
off the Internet. Please use the links provided on FDC at to get to,,
or any of the other various links to get to the internet chains.
When you use these links, Fruvous Dot Com gets a small kickback
from the chain which goes toward its operating expenses.

Bulletproof Artist Management & Booking is also handling internet
merchandise orders. You can order all the currently available 
Moxy Fruvous CDs (and other Fruvous merchandise) online

CDs are also available at Fruvous live shows from the Merchandise

As a last ditch attempt to fulfill your Fruvous fix with new
CDs, you can contact Moxy Fruvous Headquarters at 
or write them at

        1488 Queen Street West
        P.O. Box 90005
        Toronto, Ontario
        M6K 1M2

4)   Does the band ever put out singles?

Yes, the band has released singles for 9 different Fruvous songs. Most
of these singles were promotional singles ( CDs with one track made
for radio stations). They are sent out by the publicity people for the
band to stations in the hopes of getting some airplay. Sometimes the
stations give them away to employees who may give them to fans or sell 
them to used CD stores, so check around. 

Two singles from _Bargainville_, "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors" and
"Stuck in the '90s", contained more than just the single track. They
had additional bonus tracks that contained other material.

The singles released by the band are:
- "King of Spain "
- "Stuck in the 90's"
- "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors"
- "Fell in Love"
- "Down From Above"
- "Fly"
- "Get in the Car"
- "I Will Hold On"
- "Splatter Splatter"

Singles are hard to find and it is suggested that you snatch them right
up if you see them. 

The band has also released 2 "sampler" tapes. After Bargainville, they
had a Bargainville 3-song sampler tape that was used for promotion
at shows. Before Wood was released, the band had a fan contest to 
"name the new album." All the people who submitted a response received 
a Wood Sampler tape. These 2 tapes are also very rare.

5)   Does the band ever make videos?

Yes, the band has made videos for 8 different Fruvous songs, the 
most recent being two videos off of _Thornhill_. Some of the early 
videos got good amounts of airplay on MuchMusic in Canada during 
the early-mid '90s, and "I Will Hold On" and "Sad Girl" are also 
getting airplay on Muchmore Music.

A list of the videos that are out there:
- "King of Spain"
- "Stuck in the 90's"
- "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors"
- "Fell in Love"
- "Down From Above"
- "Fly"
- "Get in the Car"
- "I Will Hold On"
- "Sad Girl"

A "Moxy Fruvous Video Collection" was the prize when you obtained 
12 stamps on the old Fruhead Card (NOTE: Not the same as the Frumiles 
card). This collection was a tape containing all the above videos 
that were available at the time. There are two versions of the video 
collection. The most complete version contains all videos up to "Get 
in the Car", but for those fans who received their video collection 
before "Get in the Car" was released, their video collections have the 
videos up to "Fly."

The videos for "King of Spain," "I Will Hold On," and "Sad Girl" are 
available on To view them, you need 
Real Player 7 plugin. The site contains troubleshooting help for 
using it. To get to the videos, choose Rock/Pop from the Burly Music
drop down at the top of the page. In the new window, choose
Moxy Fruvous in the Artists A-Z drop down and there you go! Access
to the three videos. Moxy Fruvous was featured the week 
of March 21st. Burly Bear also has a lot of other great videos 
available online.

6)   Is there any connection between _You Will Go to the Moon_ and the
     children's book of the same name?

Yes.  Dave has said that he wrote the song as a bit of an homage to the
book.  It is not known if it's still in print, though. 

7)   What is the Indie Cassette I keep hearing about?

Released in 1992, the indie cassette was the band's first released
studio recording. As its name implies, it was independently made and
sold at the band's show. The band sold out of the first run of tapes
and had more printed up. Eventually the indie cassette, containing 6 songs
from the days of Fruvous busking on the street: "BJ Don't Cry",
"The Drinking Song", "King of Spain", "Gulf War Song", "Spiderman", and
the only studio recording of "Green Eggs and Ham" ever to be released,
went gold in Canada. 5 of the 6 songs from the indie cassette were
rerecorded for the band's first major label full-studio album,

8)   Where can I get the Indie Cassette?

The indie cassette was a limited printing run and is no longer 
available. Many people have gotten indie tapes from browsing used
record stores all across Canada, combined with extreme luck.

A mint condition, unopened copy of the indie cassette was
the prize for 2500 Frumiles.

There have been people who attempt to sell indie cassettes (and
sometimes even copies of the indie cassette) on the internet auctions
sites like eBay. These auctions sometime fetch enormous amounts of
money. At FruCon II, Jian stated that the band doesn't really like this
reselling of original indie cassettes for very high prices. Reselling
copies of the indie cassette is illegal and immoral. Please do
not buy duplicates of the indie cassette and when considering
purchasing an original indie cassette, realize the band gets
no money from your sale, while all you get is a momento tape
containing 6 songs that you can hear elsewhere for no money at

There exist a couple copies of the indie cassette pressed onto
CD (originals - not CDRs made from cassettes). A CD version of
the indie cassette was the prize given for being the first to 
complete the Fruvous Crossword puzzle, and a couple of copies 
were raffled at Fruhead Conventions past.

At the third Fruhead Convention held in Toronto in February 2000,
the band set up a rare merchandise table where you could purchase
the indie cassette on either CD or the original tape still in
shrink wrap directly from the band. There was also an original
tape, hand drawn by Mike Ford and containing material not
on the released indie cassette available for sale.

Many people who have opened originals are willing to duplicate their
indie cassette to get it to fans who want to hear it. This is, of
course, on the condition that no profit is made from the 
recording, and it is merely for the enjoyment of the fan.

Section: Songs and Lyrics

1)   Where can I get a copy of "Green Eggs and Ham"?

A studio recording of "Green Eggs and Ham" is no longer available.  It
was the only one of the six tracks on the indie tape that was not
rerecorded for _Bargainville_.  It was also included as a hidden
track on a three-song "sampler" tape Fruvous offered after
_Bargainville_ was released.  They will probably never record it again,
though. Hearsay is that Dr. Seuss' will states that his material
can only be used and licensed for educational purposes. Odds being against 
your finding the indie or sampler tape, your best bet is to ask 
someone to copy it for you.

Fruvous frequently performs this at their live shows, usually
segued from King of Spain into a shortened version of the song
with the additional perk of Murray's bass line. The long version of
the song is a special treat live, and usually includes some of
the old costumes and banter from the original version of the

2)   Where can I find the lyrics to "Johnny Saucep'n," "Your New
     Boyfriend," etc? is Fruvous Dot Com's lyrics section.
It archives all the lyrics from all the albums, lyrics from
many of the unreleased songs, and several versions of lyrics
as they changed over time. FDC's lyrics are usually annotated
with who is singing when, which comes in very handy sometimes.

3)   Where can I get translations of the French songs?

These pop up from time to time: several people have tried their hand
and put the results on Fruvous Dot Com
archives these with the other lyrics at

4)   Where can I find tabulature for Fruvous songs?

Tab (usually guitar tab) for Moxy Fruvous songs is also kept on
Fruvous Dot Com under the "Moxy's Music" section 
- Be aware that for the most part, 
these are people's individual interpretations, not from published music. 
This tab is available for not-for-profit uses and all song rights
are owned by Moxy Fruvous.

One of the prizes for the Frumiles card was a "campfire songbook," 
promising a collection of songs with complete lyrics and chords.  
Once you hit 1500 Frumiles, you will be able to tell us all what
the lyrics and chords really are. These songbooks have not yet
been distributed for people who traded in 15000 Frumiles.

5)   Where can I find vocal sheet music for Fruvous songs?

Fruvous Dot Com also has some vocal music and written out MIDI
for some songs at Sing Out!
magazine also published the sheet music for Greatest Man in America
in Fall of 1996. This is also available on FDC.

6)   Where can I find sound files of Fruvous songs?

FDC has sound samples under "Multi-Media."  For links to other
sound bytes, check out

7)   Which band member wrote which songs?  Do they

Each of the band members is a songwriter in his own right, and some of
the songs are collaborations.  It would take too long to list which
songs were the product of whose minds, nor are all of the songs'
authors known, and the band seems to like to keep that, among many
other things, in doubt.  A few examples, though, are that "Greatest
Man in America" is a collaboration, "Fly" is Jian's, "Love Set Fire"
is Murray's, "Down From Above" is Mike's, and "The Drinking Song,"
contrary to expectations, is Dave's. Many times it is assumed
that the Frulad singing lead vocals is the primary writer of the
song, but there are contradictions to this (for example the
aforementioned Drinking Song). 

8)   What's the song that they perform with the refrain, "Hey little
     bird, fly away home"?

Tom Waits' "Jockey Full of Bourbon."  The original lyrics are on FDC.
There's now a released version on _Live Noise_. Tom Waits original
version is available on _Rain Dogs_.

9)   Is it a female voice or Mike's voice during the intro to the
     studio version of "Green Eggs and Ham"?

Prior to the second Fruhead Convention in Toronto ON in 1999, the
band led on that it was not a male voice singing the intro scat
to the indie cassette version of Green Eggs and Ham. During FruCon II,
it was let slip that the voice on the recording was actually Mike Ford
singing in a high voice, and the tape was sped up a bit to get
the odd sound. 

10)  Who says "Swing it" on the studio version of "Gotta Get a Message 
     to You"?

Mike Ford's wife, Terri.

11)  Is the "lowest highest point" really in Delaware?

No, it turns out that even Fruvous is capable of spreading
misinformation.  Gordon Elgart provides the correct statistics and the
explanation for us:

"The lowest highest point is Florida, 345 feet in Walton County.

The lowest _mean_ elevation is Delaware at 60 feet.

The trivial pursuit card places Delaware at the lowest highest
elevation of 60 feet.  That is the mean elevation, thus the obvious
error on the Trivial Pursuit card.  The question should have said
"Which U.S. state has the lowest mean elevation of 60 feet"?  Horn
Abbot was not famous for its editing ability."

See the Trivial Pursuit card that started the madness and
judge for yourself:

12)   In "King of Spain," the King plays crokinole. What IS crokinole?

Crokinole is a shuffleboard-style parlor game that was very popular
around the turn of the 20th Century and still has a following in
Canada and the United States today. 

For more information on Crokinole, see these pages:

13)   What songs that Moxy Fruvous regularly performs are actually covers?

The band members of Moxy Fruvous are all music sponges and have taken
in a lot of music over the years. Cover songs are an outlet to this.
A "cover" is a when an artist or group performs a song written and
performed by another band. Sometimes a cover song just fits really
well or would be funny, other times covering the song is a tribute
to the original's band and the song itself. Moxy Fruvous performs
a good number of covers, some of which are leftover from the days
when they didn't have enough material to fill a show or from
even earlier when most of the band (all but Dave) were involved
in a cover band called the Chia Pets. 

The following is a list of some of the covers done by the
band and information about the original version:
- "Alison", Elvis Costello _My Aim is True_
- "Ash Hash", Bob Snider
- "Believe", Cher
- "Brown Eyed Girl", Van Morrison
- "Early Morning Rain", Gordon Lightfoot
- "Homeward Bound", Simon and Garfunkel
- "I Shall Be Released", Bob Dylan
- "I've Gotta Get a Message to You", BeeGees
- "Jockey Full of Bourbon", Tom Waits _Rain Dogs_
- "La Complainte Du Phoque En Alaska", Beau Dommage
- "He's Misstra Know-it-all", Stevie Wonder _Innervisions_
- "Oliver's Army", Elvis Costello _Armed Forces_
- "Peace of Mind", Boston
- "Poor Napoleon", Elvis Costello _Blood and Chocolate_
- "Psycho Killer", Talking Heads _Stop Making Sense_
- "Signed, Sealed, Delivered", Stevie Wonder
- "Substitute", The Who
- "This Boy", The Beatles
- "Walking Spanish", Tom Waits _Rain Dogs_
- "You're Going to Lose that Girl", the Beatles

The band also performs medleys of songs containing a lot of

Billie Jean Medley normally contains:
- "Billie Jean", Michael Jackson _Thriller_
- "Lovefool", The Cardigans _First Band on the Moon_
- "Rudi, a Message to You", Specials

Dancing Queen Medley normally contains:
- "Walk on the Wild Side", Lou Reed _Sally Can't Dance_
- "Dancing Queen", Abba
- "Angel of Harlem", U2 _Rattle and Hum_

Love Potion #9 normally contains:
- "Love Potion #9", the Coasters
- "Ohio", Crosby Stills Nash and Young
- "Stayin' Alive", BeeGees
- "Jungle Boogie", Kool and the Gang
- "Love Shack", B-52's

14)   In "River Valley," they mention Dippers, Grits, 
      and Tories. What are those?

    Meet me in the river valley, you can tell me stories
    About a time before pinstripe suits, dippers, grits, and tories

That line in the song is making the river valley out to be a haven
away from the politics that seemingly involve everything around us.
The Dippers, the Grits, and the Tories are political parties in 
Canada. The names themselves are more the language of the people
and traditional. 

Historically, Tories were conservatives and today, a Tory is a 
member of the Progressive Conservative Party (with much emphasis 
on the "conservative" and a bit of a chuckle at the "progressive").
For example, Ontario Premier Mike Harris is a member of the 
Progressive Conservative Party and thus a Tory.

The Grits are the Liberal Party. Idealistically, they are less
conservative than the Progressive Conservatives, but really are
about as liberal as the Tories are progressive. Canadian
Prime Minister Jean Chretien is a member of the Liberal Party.

The Dippers are the true liberals. They are the New Democratic
Party. Former Premier Bob Rae was a member of the
New Democratic Party and premier of Ontario in the early 1990's. 

15)*  In "Minnie the Moocher," are any of the lyrics the same
      at every performance?

When Grandpa Fruvous comes out to do Fruvous' Cover of "Minnie the
Moocher," most of the lyrics are hand crafted to the area where
the band is that night (though sometimes, very topical political
or national news items may have verses that are held over for
a bit - i.e. Hurricane Georges or the infamous Clinton pressure
cooker verse). There is, however, one section that stays the
same each and every time they perform it:

    So our Minnie, she checked out the national papers
    Keeping informed of those coast to coast capers
    Tired of the biased views that they were bringing
    Said she'd rather hear some Fruvous scat singing

    Uh 1, uh 1, uh 1, 2, 3, 4.

    Clever Ebon Harris the Reigning Mutton Baron packed a 
    lamb in saran, saran. How is clever Ebon ever gonna get
    to heaven if he keeps turning lamb into spam in a can?

Section: Fruvous Characters

1)   Who is Larry Boniface Clebdon?  Who is Barry?

LBC, as he is sometimes known, is the "budgie dog" who appears on the
front of _Bargainville_, among other places.  Barry is the yellow
budgie-dog-like creature on the back of _The B Album_, and elsewhere.  
They and their siblings are drawn by Mike and tend to appear
randomly on albums and merchandise.

2)   Who is Lazlo?

Lazlo is John Shotwell, Fruvous' old soundman, with them through the
end of 1996 and rejoining them briefly in the summer of  '97.  "Lazlo"
is said to be either a nickname Fruvous gave him or his professional
name. After John, Trevor joined the band for a few months in the 
spring and summer of '97, and Cal, who predates John, rejoined them 
after John's summer stint.

Lazlo the Soundman is said NOT to be the Lazlo from "Lazlo's Career",
and that that Lazlo is a sprite that follows the Frubus around.

3)   What's a Laika?

Laika was a dog that participated in the Soviet Space Program. Here's
what Rodney Elin had to say about it:

"The Laika of the song was the first dog in space. She was also the 
first animal in space. Laika's flight on Sputnik II, 3 Nov 1957, was
primarily to see if animals would stay alive in space, or in Soviet 
space capsules, and to see if telemetry (remote monitoring of stuff like
heartrate) worked after launch.
Laika was 'left in space', to burn up in the atmosphere. There was 
never any plan or controversy in 1957: she was going up and she
was going to burn up and die on reentry (6 days later).  Once launched, 
there was not really a controversy. There was no return capability on 
Sputnik or any space vehicle.

A picture, not for the squirmish, is available at

As far as the song goes, Laika is held as one of the symbols ushering 
in the space age. (As are Sputnik, Yuri Gagarin, John Glenn and Neil 

4)   Who is Dusty Fosterbourd?

Dusty Fosterbourd appears in the Fruvous Song "That's Any Good." He's
a British Invasion Hero, who had one huge hit, "That's Any Good."
He, along with the Dustettes - Skeet, Reg, and Stig - come out to
sing their hit when they make their comebacks. He looks an
awful lot like Murray Foster in real life.

5)   Who is Grandpa Fruvous?

Grandpa Fruvous is a rancid-smelling ancient being from before
the dawn of time. He's had some great fun with many famous
people (including many old US presidents, actors, and celebrities)
usually driving around in all sorts of old-school cars like
the Lincoln Biscayne or a Mercury trying to hit things with them.
Grandpa wears a stylish hat and loves old-fashioned sing alongs.
He performs "Minnie the Moocher" on stage with Fruvous, usually
coming out for outdoor shows or special shows. If you can
stand the smell long enough to get a good look at him, 
Grandpa Fruvous looks an awful lot like Mike Ford.

6)   Who is Lou?

Usually with his sleeves rolled up and his trusty blublockers on,
Lou Reed sings with Moxy Fruvous on the Dancing Queen Medley. 
Introduced as the poet of New York and former leader of the
Velvet Underground, Lou usually enters the stage to chants
of "Lou." He also normally has some poetry prepared for the
event. Under the blublockers, Lou has a striking resemblance
to Mike Ford.

7)   Who is Marion Fruvous

Toronto's first environmental crusader, Marion Fruvous is
a modern day folk hero. She pops up on stage with Moxy Fruvous, 
who may have in fact gotten their name from the environmental 
crusader, when they perform the "Ballad of Marion Fruvous." Marion's
message encourages not only recycling, which many times simply
fills landfills, but also encourages reducing the amount of
waste you generate. Incredibly beautiful, Marion used to look a whole 
lot like David Hyde Pierce, but must have shaved her head at some 
point. She also seems to have grown some facial hair and has never
appeared on stage at the same time as Dave Matheson for some
odd reason.

8)   Who is the Naive Young Chap?

The Naive Young Chap is a character that has very rarely graced the 
stage alongside Moxy Fruvous, and yet is still one of the most 
beloved characters in their hearts. When he does appear on stage, he
performs the song "Harbourmall" with Moxy Fruvous. Like David Bowie 
had the Thin White Duke, Aladdin Sane, and Ziggy Stardust, Moxy Fruvous 
has many characters, but none are as loveable as the Naive Young Chap.
He's a guy from up north that just wants to go down and enjoy
Toronto's harbourfront. His face shows just how naive he is. It
also shows that he looks a bit like Dave Matheson. 

9)   Who is Jared (the wild boy)?

"Jared (the wild boy)," a song off _The C Album_, is about
Fruvous fan Jered Floyd, who is originally from Michigan, went
to school at MIT, and is working for a lab at MIT currently. His
exploits into logistics or cyber terrorists aside, he's an
awful nice fellow. He can be found at the occasional Moxy Fruvous 
show, usually up near the front jumping up and down a lot or 
sitting quietly in the back enjoying the show. 

You can check out more about Jered on his home page at:

FDC has a couple pictures of Jered in the Fruvous Fans section.
Here's a link to one of them with Dan "the Shadow" Jablonski,
another MIT grad and Boston Fruvous fan. Dan is the one pointing
while Jered has his mouth covered:

The song was originally written as Jered's prize for obtaining
18 stamps on the original Fruhead Card.

Section: Fruvous-Related Links and Information

1)   What other bands might a fan of Fruvous be interested in?

Early in their career, Fruvous was frequently compared with fellow
Canadian indie band Barenaked Ladies: both are famed for excellent
concerts, both topped the indie charts and then went on to sign large
record deals, and both have varied and "quirky" musical styles.  The
two have diverged largely in the last few years, and few people think
them very similar anymore; but many followers of one band enjoy music
by the other.  

They Might Be Giants fans also have quite a bit of reciprocity with
Fruvous fans.  The question frequently comes up of whether Fruvous are
TMBG fans; the answer is clearly "yes," as members of the band have
been known to spout random TMBG lines and make up songs from TMBG
tunes (particularly "Particle Man").  They joined forces with Da
Vinci's Notebook ( ) to cover "Shoehorn
With Teeth" on DVN's album _Bendy's Law_.

Fruheads tend to have diverse tastes, not easily pigeonholed; you'll
catch a mention of Bela Fleck in one thread, XTC in another,
Salamander Crossing here and Beethoven there. Other artists you might
now and again hear discussion of on this newsgroup include - but
obviously aren't limited to - 

Eddie From Ohio, a female-fronted quartet from Virginia, intelligent
and unusual themes, strong harmonies, good use of harmonica and bass,
and all out fun folk music;

Ben Folds Five, a piano/bass/percussion alterna-rock trio, a favorite
of Murray and Jian;

Dan Bern, an incredible song-writer and an extremely wide-ranged,
say what he's thinking folk artist;

yeP!, a Massachusetts-based funk-rock/bluegrass/jazz band who have
played with Fruvous before, now on extended hiatus;

The Nields, a Western Massachusetts five-piece band - due to new relations
between members of the band, the previous clever comment here has been 
removed, but that doesn't change the great music this band puts out;

Jim's Big Ego, a Boston punk-rap-acoustic-folk-satire caffeine-laced
trio fronted by Jim Infantino;

Arrogant Worms, a popular Canadian acoustic humor band, silly and fun;

Great Big Sea, a Canadian pop-Celtic group, now breaking into the U.S.
market and admired for their energy and Maritime themes;

Tory Cassis, friend/co-writer with the band, a Canadian acoustic/swing
artist whose debut album is released in Canada on True North;

Guster, 3 guys with a lot of pop talent, have played with
Fruvous before;

Susan Werner, a labelmate of Fruvous in the United States, plays
a very rich folk sound;

Johny Vegas, a Syracuse NY-based, very solid pop group has played
with Fruvous many times;

Sarah Slean, a Toronto artist that has travelled with Fruvous a bit,
plays mellow, beautiful, piano-based music sometimes with string

The band admires the Beatles, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello; Jian
has been known to plug the Talking Heads; Mike admires the
Rheostatics; and Dave - well, Dave knows everything by everyone.

This FAQ does not claim or attempt to address anything but the most
basic of questions which you might have about Moxy Fruvous and the newsgroup.   There are also possible errors
contained herein: if you know, or even suspect, that an answer given
is wrong, please feel free to followup this post or email

There are many excellent websites out there, FDC being only
one, and you are encouraged to read there the history of the group;
personal reviews of the concerts; articles on and interpretations of
Fruvous's music, albums, and career; introductions and stories from
other fans, and so on.  Questions are welcome, posting is encouraged, 
and get out there and meet people at shows!


Many thanks go out to Colleen Campbell, creator and initial
maintainer of the FAQ. Without her, this whole
thing would never have been started.

A ton of thanks to Jude Coombe for all her help over the years
posting helpful official information to the newsgroup. Official 
involvement in is really appreciated as it
helps keep the denizens in line.

Also, another myriad of "thank you"'s and "huzzahs" to Chris O'Malley,
keeper of Fruvous Dot Com ( ) and all around
excellent fellow. Thanks to Chris for having a space for the FAQ
on FDC and updating it there for me.

Thanks to Gordon Elgart for the information provided in Song and
Lyrics Question #11.

Thanks to Chris "Moz" Moesel for scanning in the Trivial Pursuit card
for Fruvous Dot Com.

Thanks to Rodney Elin for the information provided in
Fruvous Characters Question #3.

Thanks to Joe Navratil for sending the post that is archived in 
Appendix A and starting the acronym listing that has become 
Appendix C. Also thanks for contributing back info for Basic Info
question #10.

Thanks to Lori Martin for the AOL info from Fruvous Internet Resources
question #3.

Thanks to Jason Reiser for setting up the FAQ autoresponder
and posting about the a.m.m-f charter (and posting the actual
charter itself way back when!).

Thanks to Jeff Dallien for sending me the lyrics and info for
"Jared (the wild boy)" before I got my hands on "C".

Thanks to A.J. LoCicero and Sara for the Canadian political information
for Song and Lyrics question #14.

Helpful proofreaders without whom this FAQ would be full of "teh"s, usage
of past tense instead of present tense, and other miscellaneous badness:
Vika Zafrin, Jennifer Cenicola, Amanda Potter, Ken Perschke,
Mary Krause, Jennifer Schlosser, Liza Q. Wirtz, Traci Poli,
Jason Reiser, Andi Andrzejewski, Lori Martin, Melanie Barbarito, 
and Paul Mischler.


Appendix A - An explanation of why age restricted venues exist and bands
             play at them

This post was sent to the FAQ by Joe Navratil. He saved it off 
Footprints, a mailing list for Veritcal Horizon (VH), and it is 
reprinted here with permission. It has been cleaned up with regards 
to capitalization, spelling, and formatting. Content has not been 

Subject: [footprints] age, clubs, and economics
Date:    Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:53:21 -0400
From:    Will Foy 

From: Will Foy 

I know everyone's sick of this, but it's a frustrating thing for 
those who are under (and we were ALL underage at some point), so 
I wanted to say a few words about this.

A warning: this is sorta long, but I want to kinda walk people 
through the steps of why. It doesn't make age restrictions feel 
any better, but it explains the why's.

I'm going to be writing using my own personal experiences, some 
of which talking with promoters, club owners, bands, club staff, 
and my own fraternity's risk management position, which deals with 
some of the exact same laws and modes of thought. Your mileage may 
vary on some of the things I'm going to discuss, but by and large, 
these are industry norms.

So, you're starting up a club. Cool deal! It's something I've 
entertained for a while myself, and may well do one day.  You're 
a big music fan, and don't wanna rave club or something silly like 
that, so you go out, you book about 2 months worth of bands to play 
in advance.  You, as your own promoter, want people to come out 
and see these bands that you enjoy as a fan, and pay you for the 
privilege of coming into your club to see them. This is called a 
cover charge, and we've all paid one probably at some point.  You 
also want to make it affordable so the college kids (you did put your 
club in a college town didn't you?) can come and see them too! You 
make your default ticket price $5, which is reasonable, and it also
works nice for the numbers.

So, as you're building your club, you have the local fire marshall 
come out, inspect the club (you have to do this), and rate your 
capacity.  He says you can hold 500 people in your new club. So, an 
interesting thing here... at your default rate, you can make only 
2500 from the door. Keep that number in mind.

Now, when you signed up the bands with their booking agents (people 
like PGA, who handles R.E.M., (e:), Sting, boatloads of other people, 
Red Light, Creative artists, and many times, the bands themselves), 
you signed a contract. This contract has LOTS of stuff in it, 
including for the moment, a couple of statements about fees for 
performance, etc.  Most bands have a hybrid style contract. They'll 
get an amount that must be paid, period. This is called a guarantee. 
That amount ranges based on how well known the band is in that area, 
how much they have made and expect to make at repeat performances, 
and all kinds of other factors. It's made through negotiation.  Let's 
say that you book a band, the Smokin' Mirrors, who aren't known real 
well in your area, and they ask for a $500 guarantee. That's reasonable 
you think, so you sign that part of the contract. Typically, bands 
will also ask for a percentage of the door take.  This percentage may 
vary by club.  Jack Straw's for example, does 100% of the door. 
Ziggy's does 80-band/20-club in most cases. Before you get to 80/20, 
you have to meet the guarantee, so it's usually 100% of the door
upto the guarantee, then 80% of the rest.

So, let's say you booked on a good night, lots of people came out, 
and you sold 250 tickets.  That's 250 x 5 = 750. So, the band gets 
their 500 from the guarantee + 80% of 250, which is 200.  They get 
700 of that 750.  Hmmm, you had a half-full club, which is pretty 
good most nights for an unknown band, and you make out with only 50 
bucks. Hmmm... file that one away.

Let's say that you booked them on a wednesday night, and it's 
midterms week at the Local University. So, you get 75 people.  
That's 75 x 5 = 375.  You actually LOST 125 bucks, b/c you had to 
pay the rest of that $500 guarantee out of pocket.  

Most businesses I know of don't exist to lose money.  Casinos might 
give out millions or even billions, but casinos aren't built on 
your winnings. They're built on the losses of countless people. 
Likewise, clubs don't exist just as music museums, they exist to make 

So, here are some choices facing a club owner:
1) Raise ALL ticket prices: aside from probably driving some 
people out the market, you do get the effect of raising your marginal 
rate, which makes you some more money, but is the increase in your 
marginal ticket price going to offset the downshift in demand? For 
tickets? Probably not, especially for MOST of the smaller, lesser 
known acts.  Think people like the Disco Biscuits, Owsley, and VH early 
on in their career.  VH loves to talk about how the first time they 
played Ziggy's there were 25 people there, and now they routinely 
sell out hours before the show (and sometimes days).  They didn't get 
to that point overnight, as we all know, but it has some implications 
for club economics.  Not the least of which is that currently, you 
could charge 10-15 for a VH ticket, but you couldn't do that when 
only 25 people show up. Doesn't work well.

2) So, using that example, you only raise ticket prices on BIG 
shows, hoping to raise your profit on BIG shows where you sell out 
the club's capacity, to offset the losses of lesser attended shows.  
Good idea, but a lot of the time, if a band knows it's going to sell 
the place out, it's going to raise the amount they want guaranteed.  
I don't think VH would be too happy with a $500 guarantee at a place 
they've sold out every time they've played for close to 2 years now.  
So, remembering that 2500 max figure, you HAVE to raise your ticket 
prices to cover the increase in guarantee in many cases. I.E. if after 
a few years of playing your club, the Smokin' Mirrors are doing well 
every night they play, they're going to ask for say, $2500 guaranteed.  
This is not astronomical by any stretch for a guarantee. So, you HAVE 
to sell out to make money at $5 a head. So, you raise the price to $10. 
that way, anything over halffull and you make a few bucks. 

3) You could lower your prices, hoping to drive up demand for tickets.
This may work for really really unknown bands to bring people who 
wouldn't pay 5 bucks, but would pay 3. You might make more, but 
there's no guaranty that people who wouldn't pay 5 bucks would pay 
at all, for an unknown band. These are the people who know two songs 
by artists we've loved for years. I'll use EMB (and I love EMB as band
and people, just good folks) as an example.  There are people who 
have seen them for years, dating back to their old drummer, pre-larry
on guitar, pre-band even.  These people know all the songs, probably 
trade tapes, etc. (they're like US!!!!), then there are those who 
know "Solitude", "I'll Be" and maybe "I Could Not Ask for More" and 
sing those till their throats pop, and that's it. Fine, they're fans 
too.  That's ok. But they barely come out for bands they do know from 
radio play. Do you honestly think they'll come out for a band they've 
never heard of, ever, much less on radio? Tickets at 3 bucks or 
5 bucks doesn't much matter.  This strategy sometimes works, but you
have to pick your spots.

4) You could "tax" merchandise sales. Bands hate this, but some venues 
do take a small chunk out of the merch sales, maybe 5 or 10 %. But, 
merch sales compared to tickets for MOST shows (not all), are probably 
going to be much less.  You might make a few bucks here, but it's 
not worth the good will of the band to push this marginal club tax rate 
higher and higher to make more $ for the club. Not a good idea. A band 
I won't mention (not VH) RAILED against a college that had this in their 
contract for playing. They took 15% from merch sales, and the band hated 
it. raised all kinds of cain trying to fight it, but in the end, their 
management signed the contract, and it was binding. No choice. I doubt 
they'll play that college again, which is sad. You as a club owner, want 
them to WANT to come back and play, so this is a bad idea.

5) You could sell something else. Ah-ha!!! Here's a place where you 
can make some more money, and probably won't have anything in the 
contract you have to fork over to the band. Great! Now what'cha gonna 
sell? You could sell club t-shirts, yeah! That's it. Oh wait, if Joe 
and Jane Clubhopper buy a t-shirt a piece, they probly won't buy 
another one next week when they come to see another band at your 
club. What else could you sell? Hmmm, I got it! Let's make it a smoothie 
bar! You'll sell great fruit and vegetable shake concoctions. Only 
trouble is no one can stand the noise those damn blenders make.  Hmmm. 
How about beer!? People will buy it over and over again, each time 
they come, and popping a top or twisting a cap is pretty quiet 
relative to the 110 dB's the PA is cranking out.  Not to mention less 
costly and less messy as far as cleanup in the bar area. 

Now, here's where we get into some interesting business decisions. 
Ok, so you as a business have your standard liability insurance (your 
local Gap has liability insurance incase someone falls, breaks a 
hip and sues. Businesses have to have this to function and be licensed) 
doesn't cover sales of alcohol, b/c it's legally and liability wise 
risky. At least that's what their bean counters and actuaries tell 
them. So, if you wanna sell alcohol they tell you, you have to pay them 
much more in insurance fees.  So there is an additional cost to even 
trying to generate more revenue.

Likewise, if your primary audience is 21+, it's not a problem.  But 
if you're in a college town, you're going to have some people 20- 
who wanna come too. Therein lies another problem: in most states (and 
this does vary from state to state, due to state insurance laws), if 
you have 20-'ers in your club, the marginal insurance rate can go up 
for those businesses.  So they'll charge you EVEN MORE for the 18-20 
year olds, and even more still for the 17-'ers, if they're even 
permitted to go inside the club. 

So, there are some ways around this increase in costs:
1) don't allow 20-'ers in
2) don't allow 17-'ers in
3) charge more for underagers (this is VERY common)
4) don't sell alcohol

None of those options is great, and now you get a flavor for 
what's coming up for club owners.

But, there's another wrinkle that makes this even more difficult. 
Your capacity, was what, 500 people? Given that everyone counts 
the same whether they're 50 or 5 years old, the more underagers 
in your club, the less product you are likely to sell, since you 
can't sell to those under 21. Thus, if you have a show in which 
you're going to have a bunch of teenagers, your bar is probably going 
to sell less beer, b/c they can't buy it. But moreover, they take 
the slot of an of-ager.  Lemme repeat that. Every ticket you sell 
to someone under 21, takes a ticket away (potentially in a sellout 
of the show) from a 21+ person.  

Thus, from an economic, and not emotional sense, it's pretty easy 
to see why a club might be less willing to do shows for 20-'ers.  

In the case of a non-sellout show, it makes little difference, but 
if the show sells out, it's bad for business for underagers to be 
in the house. Jack Straw's for YEARS was a 21+ only club. At the age 
of 20, swearing away my firstborn, swearing on the honor code of my 
school (which at davidson, a violation can get you suspended for a 
semester, or kicked out. Happens not a lot, but when violations happen, 
it's A Bad Thing.), etc. It took Steve Van Dam and Randy Reed (lead 
guitarist and manager) of Everything to get me in that night. I had 
the club owner watching me like a hawk all night.  We're now friends, 
and I think in that night, showed him that 18+ might not be a bad idea.

However, it took some doing. I was allowed in, but if I tried to bring a
friend with me, forget it. It was hassle city again.

There are some ways around the loss of revenue from underagers. 
You can sell tickets at a higher price, which is very common. You 
can also have stuff other than alcohol to sell.  Ziggy's now sells 
cokes and bottled spring water.  This is helpful in the summer for 
everyone, b/c it's really damn hot in there sometimes without people, 
much less 800 or so writhing bodies dancing singing, and filling the 
club with hot air. These help some, but not a ton.  

That said, it's not easy, and ideally everyone would be able to 
attend, but it's sometimes legally difficult too.  B/c most clubs 
don't sell food, they don't qualify as restaurants, which are subject 
to different alcohol control laws.  For instance, any of us could 
probably walk into an olive garden (used b/c it's ubiquitous), sit 
down, and have a meal, enjoy a band or whatever if they had one.  
But, they sell food. in the eyes of The Man, they are very different 
from your local bar/club (Mama Kin's, Ziggy's, Alley Katz, 
the Bayou -rock in peace -, and The Muse , etc, etc, etc), which is 
subject to strict control, Alcohol Law Enforcement raids, stings, 
and repeated visits. They also have different laws period about
control.  In many states, alcohol must be kept in a separate area 
from where underagers may go. I.E. if you're 25, and having a beer, 
you can't be in the main part of the venue, but in a cardon'ed off 
area where only of agers can go. This makes some venues say, nope, 
we're not doing that, no 20-'ers then. It offends the people who are 
of age, and who pay their ticket prices too, and would drive them 
away from that venue.  Also in many states, if the club sells liquor, 
people under 18 aren't allowed in, period.  In NC, if the club sells 
liquor, you must be a member of the club, or a guest of a member 
to purchase it, and it must be kept in a separate area. Thus, 
Ziggy's created a membership program, for $5 lifetime membership, 
for which you get a monthly calendar, and a card, as well as access 
to the liquor bar, pool tables, and much cleaner bathrooms.  it
sucks mightily, but it's the law.  Violation could mean shutting 
down the club, which would not be preferable to restrictions.

Now, there are people you could blame as a fan, but the club owner 
isn't probably one of them. They're people who may not make a ton of 
money. They own a club, b/c they probably really love music, and 
while they make a profit, they're not turning into millionaires any 
time soon. keep in mind, they have to pay for power, insurance, water, 
facilities like bathrooms and repairs to items damaged by people who 
come in, plus, paying for sound, lighting, heating and cooling, etc, 
etc, etc... how does that get paid for? Cover charge, and bar.

It's not a good thing for those of you who are underage, but the 
club owner isn't the guy you wanna blame. Blame your state lawmakers. 
Blame the federal restriction on alcohol to 21, if the state wants 
federal highway funds. Blame idiots who drink and drive when they 
could wait 5 minutes and call a cab, which brought the ire of MADD, 
SADD, and lawmakers to raise the drinking age. Blame the boneheads 
who are underage and try to drink. 

I heartily discourage you from buying fakes. Why? B/c it ends up 
hurting clubs, b/c if they get busted by ALE, b/c of you, their 
insurance goes up, they may have to close, etc. Not A Good Thing. 
Cabeesh?  Instead, here are some ideas:

1) Lobby the band to force the club to do all ages shows. If the 
band, like VH, is well known, the club may cave. This happens. It 
takes some doing, but it happens. Jack Straw's was 21+, but was forced 
to be 16+ (not quite all ages), for a Jump, Little Children show, b/c 
they made it part of the contract, and wouldn't play without it.  
Email VH and other bands you love, to voice that you're 16 or 14, and 
you'd go to see them, even paying extra, to go to see them in your 
area, if they'd make the club do all ages.  I'd bet they'll listen 
and try to make it happen. don't be mad if they can't. It may not be 
legally possible. It sucks.

2) Lobby your government to repeal 21+ alcohol laws, at least as 
they pertain to music clubs. Write your house rep, write your senators, 
write to your state house and senate people, write to the governor, and 
keep at it. You might not be 18, but if you can voice your opinion, it 
makes it well known that your vote for or against them hangs in the 

3) Lobby the club to do all ages shows, or 18+ for those shows. 
Suggest that you pay more to balance their costs.  It might work. 
I lobbied Chandler at Jack Straw's for this, even after I was 21, so 
that people I knew could come to shows.

4) Beg and plead with the club staff. It sometimes works. Keep at it.
Don't be angry, or violent, or hassle them. Be polite. It's your best
weapon in this scenario.

5) Call the band ahead, and don't ask to be on the guest list (b/c 
they'll still check id), but ask them to put some sort of "responsible 
underager list" at the door. They might do it.

Most of all, when you're out, and underage, be responsible. Don't 
drink. It's what started this mess for clubs and 18-20 year olds 
in the first place. If you wanna drink, do it somewhere else.  I 
personally think it's no crime for an 18 year old who can be drafted, 
to drink a frosty cold beer. In fact, I think that laws should be 
corrected so that like my old roomie from Cyprus could, drink at 
12 (basically old enough to see over the bar), and drive at 18 or 21.  
That would be vastly preferable. It's easier to take care of a body 
than it is to take care of a car and a body. Please whatever you do, 
don't drink and drive. Again, this is what made stupid inane, unfriendly 
laws happen.  Take a cab, have a designated driver, get a ride with a 
friend. Your car will be fine, get it the next morning (just make sure 
you put your Club on the steering column) friends, take the keys. Club 
owners bend the rules sometimes, so being responsible will encourage 
that type of thing more often.

Do I sound like an old fuddy duddy? Perhaps, but this is after close 
to 7 years of club experience, working the door, doing merch, hanging 
out with bartenders at far too late an hour, talking with owners, 
etc. They know what they're doing.  

Does it suck? You bet. Try some of the stuff I wrote above. It may 
make a difference.

Appendix B - Newsgroup Definitions and
             Etiquette Suggestions

Contained herein are some general Usenet tips, suggestions, 
definitions, and recommendations that are tailored to Please read this section and bear in mind 
its contents when reading or posting to the newsgroup. There are many 
many newsgroup subscribers who get posts in various different ways 
and each person has their own likes and dislikes. DOs and DON'Ts

DO read the newsgroup for a week or two before posting. It helps you 
     get a feel for the atmosphere, what people like to read and
     what they don't like to read and just generally gets you 
     acclimated to your audience.

DO read the FAQ. If it answers your questions, maybe you don't need 
     to ask it again to the whole newsgroup just to get the same 

DON'T post in all capital letters. On a.m.m-f this is considered 
     shouting and is very rude. Use capitalized words sparingly and 
     when you mean to stress something. DON'T POST IN ALL CAPITALS.

DO quote a bit of the post you are responding to when replying 
     so that people reading your reply get the context of your 
     reply. Usenet can get some messages out of order, so your 
     message needs to be self contained or some people may not 
     get your point.

DON'T quote the entire contents of the message you are replying 
     to. Snip out the irrelevant parts and just quote what is 
     necessary to get the idea of what you are replying to. Many 
     people don't like to wade through 30 lines of quoting to get 
     to 3 lines of response. 

DON'T leave the entire contents of the article you are replying 
     to at the bottom of your post. Many people read the newsgroup 
     in digest format and this makes the digest very hard to read.

DON'T bring up the band members' personal lives. It is NOT an 
     appropriate subject for the newsgroup.

DON'T post to the entire newsgroup when a direct email to a specific
     newsgroup member would be more appropriate. If you want to 
     get a band member a message, the newsgroup is NOT the place to 
     post your message. 

DO use the "OT:" heading to mark Off-Topic subjects. Some people 
     don't like to read non-Fruvous-related posts and just want 
     album discussions, show reviews, tour dates, and the like. 
     Using "OT:" in your headers marks off-topic posts so people 
     can skip if they like.

DO change the subject line if the thread has veered off to a 
     different subject. Someone may not enjoy the original subject, 
     but where you veer it off to may be something they'd like to read.
     Many people choose which posts to read by the subject, so make 
     the subject fit the body of your post.

DO respect the other people in the newsgroup. There are people behind 
     the text you are reading. Flaming someone publicly on the newsgroup 
     is not a good thing.

DON'T reply to troll posts. A troll in Usenet is defined as a person 
     who makes an inflammatory post with no intent of starting 
     meaningful conversation. The troll will usually sit back and 
     watch the replies swarm in, including personal flame mail. This 
     is exactly what the troll wants, so don't encourage them by giving 
     it to them. Just let it be.

DO limit the number of lines in your signature. An .sig over 5 lines
     is consider excessive by standard Usenet etiquette. Some people
     pay for bandwidth. While having a 20 line signature at the end of
     each of your posts may seem like a good way of expressing who
     you are, it also is a waste of downloading for people who won't
     even read it. 

DON'T post binaries to the group. Binaries include pictures, soundfiles,
     etc. is not a binaries group and many
     people do not want bandwidth hogging binaries to automatically
     come to them when they are trying to read the newsgroup.

DON'T post with mime encryption or as HTML. Yes, you can be more
     fancy with HTML posts, but many people do not use HTML
     enabled newsreaders or email programs. They see your post
     as a lot of weird junk and probably won't bother reading it.

DON'T post "me too" messages. Please DO participate in threads and
     add your ideas, opinions, and knowledge to the group discussion,
     but simply replying with a "me too" after someone's post (no
     matter how good it was) is an old Usenet faux pas and is
     frowned on by many people. If you want to agree with someone,
     please take the time to add some of your personal flavor to
     the message.

It is hoped that the above list helps you get acclimated to the 
newsgroup more quickly and prevents you from looking foolish in some 
people's eyes with your first post. You don't have to have FDC 
memorized top to bottom to be a part of the newsgroup, but please 
try and follow some simple etiquette when posting and you will find 
the newsgroup a great resource for Fruvous information of all types.

Appendix C - Common acronyms seen in

Fruvous fans are really a bunch of hippies and geeks, and with that many
geeks you know there are gonna be acronyms from here to eternity. Here's
a list of common abbreviations and acronyms seen on a.m.m-f. If you
have any additions, please email

BJ              "BJ Don't Cry" (from _Bargainville_)
B&B             "Bed & Breakfast" (from _Wood_)
GE&H, GE+H      "Green Eggs & Ham" (from the indie tape)
GMIA            "The Greatest Man In America" (from _The B Album_)
GWS             "The Gulf War Song" (from _Bargainville_)
ID, ID4         "Independence Day" (from _Thornhill_)
ILMB            "I Love My Boss" (from _The B Album_)
ITC             "It's Too Cold" (from _Wood_)
IWHO            "I Will Hold On" (from _Thornhill_)
KITA            "Kick In The Ass" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_)
KoS, KOS        "King Of Spain" (from _Bargainville_)
MBLABOA         "My Baby Love A Bunch Of Authors" (from _Bargainville_)
Michy           "Michigan Militia" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_)
MPG             "My Poor Generation" (from _Thornhill_)
PTT             "The Present Tense Tureen" (from _Wood_)
YCBTC           "You Can't Be Too Careful" (From _Thornhill_)
YNB             "Your New Boyfriend" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_)
YWGTTM          The title track from _You Will Go To The Moon_

AFAIK           As far as I know
afmf  , the evil stillborn twin of ammf
BTW             By the way
FAQ             Frequently asked questions list.  
FS              For sale (usually used in subject lines)
FWIW            For what it's worth
FYI             For your information
IM[NS]HO        In my (not so) humble opinion.  Sometimes the 'H' is 
                left out
LOL             Laughing out loud
NG              Newsgroup.  In this case, ammf.
OT              Off-Topic.  Not to be confused with On-Topic, which 
                doesn't have an acronym
ROFL            Rolling on the floor laughing
RTF             Read the FAQ
* TIA           Thanks in advance
YMMV            Your mileage may vary

AW            Arrogant Worms
BFF,BF5         Ben Folds Five
BFF             Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
BNL             Barenaked Ladies
EFO             Eddie From Ohio
GBS             Great Big Sea
JBE             Jim's Big Ego
TMBG            They Might Be Giants

BL              The Bottom Line, in New York City
IH              The Iron Horse, in Northampton (NoHo), MA
IP              Irving Plaza, in New York City
Lee's           Lee's Palace, in Toronto, ON
* MM            MuchMusic, a music television channel produced in Canada
* MMM           Muchmore Music, a spin-off of MuchMusic that plays
                non-mainstream videos
NoHo            Northampton, MA, usually used as shorthand for the 
                Iron Horse
Ramshead        The Rams Head Tavern, in Annapolis, MD
TLA             The Theatre of the Living Arts, a great venue in
                downtown Philadelphia
Tralf           The Tralfamadore Cafe in downtown Buffalo
Troc            The Trocadero in Philly

Fruvous Miscellania
Bville          _Bargainville_, the first album
FDC             Fruvous Dot Com, or
FHDC            Fruhead Dot Com, or
FRFF            Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, in Hillsdale NY
F&FFC           Fruvous & Friends For Choice, the pretty annual Fruvous
                benefit for the Ontario Coalition of Abortion Clinics
LBC             Larry Boniface Clebdon, the.. er, thing on the cover 
                of _Bargainville_
LN              _Live Noise_, the fourth full-length album and only 
                live release
MF              Moxy Fruvous, Murray Foster, or Mike Ford. 
MFHQ            Moxy Fruvous Headquarters in Toronto ON
NYE             New Years Eve
TO              Toronto, Ontario
WTG, WTGM, WTGD Way To Go, Way To Go Murray, Way To Go Dave
YWGTTM          _You Will Go To The Moon_, the third full-length album 

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